A new conversation with Jonathan Lundgren, one of the world’s most interesting and most cited scientists when it comes to regenerative agriculture. For the last four years, Jonathan and his team have been in full swing with their 1000 Farms Initiative, where they document research and follow regenerative farms, actually closer to 1600 farms now.
An episode where we talk about data, data, and more data. We unpack a four-year effort that spans commodities, ecoregions, and management styles, revealing how regeneration scales in the real world. The results are striking: equal or better yields, stronger profits, higher biodiversity, improved water infiltration, and a path to substantial soil carbon storage, all without needing more land.

But it isn’t just about that. It’s about farmers’ health and happiness. It’s about pushing our imagination of what farmland could look like. It’s about the outliers in these studies that show us what is possible: more people on the land, more farmers connected to every acre being managed. It’s about producing food for your family and community. It’s about revitalizing rural communities and bringing back the life that has been sucked out of there. Enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Jonanhan (though, as always, it feels too short!).

This episode is part of the Role of Animals in food and agriculture systems of the future series, supported and co-produced by the Datamars Sustainability Foundation.

COWS ARE CRUCIAL FOR SAVING THE BEES

Cows are crucial for saving the bees. New research shows that cattle managed regeneratively increases flowers and plant community structure on rangelands. In turn, bee hives placed on these regenerative rangelands gain significantly more weight, and respond to healthy plant communities by reproducing more and resisting pests like Varroa mites.

Integrating livestock into farming systems creates a resurgence of plant life. This increase in plant biomass and diversity is the fundamental driver for bringing back biodiversity, including crucial pollinators like bees.

“Well, so number one, you have to have more animals. In order to maximise that resurgence, they have to hit it hard, and then you have to let it rest. And then the first thing that happens is biodiversity returns to that because the amount of the biomass and the abundance and the diversity of every single organismal group that we’ve studied seems to scale directly with plants.” Jonathan Lundgren

THE FUNDAMENTAL IMPORTANCE OF ANIMALS IN ECOSYSTEMS

According to Jonathan, animals are not optional but essential for functional ecosystems. Ecosystems evolved with animals, and their presence is critical for planetary health, regardless of whether people choose to eat them.
We dig into why animals are pivotal to resilient landscapes. Tight herds, frequent moves, and long rest periods rebuild plant vigor and root depth, which cascade into healthier soils and richer food webs. The nuance matters: the 100th meridian divides how grazing should be managed, and Mediterranean or monsoon climates demand different playbooks. But the biology holds—manage for recovery and structural diversity, and life returns.

“We’re not going to save our place on this planet without animals. And I don’t care whether you want to eat ’em or not, but we need them. These ecosystems evolved with animals and what they do.” Jonathan Lundgren

THE IMPACT OF FARMING PRACTICES ON FARMERS’ HEALTH AND MENTAL HEALTH

The conversation touches on the pressures faced by farmers. Jonathan highlights a direct and troubling observation about the health consequences of conventional practices, suggesting a link between pesticide use on industrial-scale farms and the health of the farming families themselves.

“We’re killing our farmers, or at least our croppers, through greed, corporate greed, although the pesticides are really having an impact and I think that’s a huge driver.” Jonathan Lundgren

A STRATEGY OF FLOODING THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE WITH DATA

Jonathan also challenges the way agricultural science has been done, showing how most “regenerative” literature fails basic tests of replication, definition, or on-farm relevance. His team’s approach flips that script with harmonized methods, outcome-focused metrics, and a simple eight-question score that predicts soil and well-being.
Jonathan discusses the deliberate strategy behind the 1000 Farms Initiative to publish a large number of papers simultaneously. The goal is to challenge the existing scientific narrative and “control the dialogue” by presenting an overwhelming body of evidence that can’t be easily ignored.

“We’ve got a chance to really control the dialogue if we release our papers correctly. And the science comes out as a sucker punch, and the peer review process takes so damn long. But I think it’s going to be really important in getting the right people engaged on this.” Jonathan Lundgren

THE CHALLENGE OF IDENTITY AND CULTURE AS A BARRIER TO CHANGE

After addressing common agronomic and economic objections to regenerative agriculture, Jonathan identifies the deepest barrier to change. The real hurdle is not practical but sociological, relating to a farmer’s identity and the cultural perception of what a “good farm” should look like.

Beyond agronomy and economics, the true bottleneck is identity. Farmers don’t just change tools; they change who they think they are. Adoption accelerates when local “cool kids” lead, when communities form clusters that make learning visible, and when rural sociology is funded alongside soil science. From Vermont’s centuries-old rotations to New Mexico’s acequia water commons, geography and culture shape durable practices. We also touched on Project Avalanche, a community-led science platform that helps producers collect and contextualize their own data, strengthening networks and speeding up learning.

“A conversation with Matt Sanderson as a friend at Kansas State. He said what identity is and how difficult it is to change our identity and the culture around us. And what is your definition, in your own self, of what a good farm is and what that looks like? That’s a hard hurdle to overcome.” Jonathan Lundgren

OTHER POINTS DISCUSSED

Koen and Jonathan also talked about

• Diversification through cut flowers.
• The role of community support.
• Geography’s influence on grazing patterns.

LINKS:

• Paper Regenerative rangeland management improves honey bee health and productivity
• Episode 156: Data-Driven Regeneration with Jonathan Lundgren with John Kempf
• Ohio State University Bee Lab webinar series

LINKED INTERVIEWS:

• Jonathan Lundgren on why all agriculture scientists should become farmers first
• Jonathan Lundgren – Regenerative agriculture much more profitable than extractive ag?!
• Role of Animals in food and agriculture systems of the future series
• Ichsani Wheeler – We need more large animals in our landscapes
• Walking the land with Benedikt Boesel – Fully integrating 300 cows into a 1000-hectare arable very sandy farm
• Dianne, Ian and Matthew Haggerty – Food, not commodities: how regenerative agriculture works at scale on 63,000 acres

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The above references an opinion and is for information and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be investment advice. Seek a duly licensed professional for investment advice.